You wouldn’t think that a 16th-century prankster would have much to contribute to a modern pastoral counseling practice—but St. Philip Neri is one of pastoral counselor Jacob Flores-Popcak’s go-to saints.

Known as the “Apostle of Rome,” Philip Neri was famous for his holiness—and his humor. Once, he even showed up to a banquet held in his honor with all the hair on one side of his head shaved clean off (eyebrows and beard, too!), smiling and chatting all evening as if nothing were unusual.

For Flores-Popcak, this story captures an often-overlooked truth about emotional and spiritual growth: humility and silliness often go hand in hand. Flores-Popcak often uses Philip Neri’s example in therapy sessions to help clients see how pride can quietly sabotage relationships.

“A lot of the time relationship problems come down to wanting so badly to save face and to be taken seriously,” Flores-Popcak said. “Then I fall into the sin of pride and end up kind of shutting out my capacity for empathy or compassion.”

True humility, he explains, doesn’t mean putting ourselves down; it means being willing to let go of control—even to risk looking foolish for the sake of love. Embracing the role of Neri’s “holy fool” frees up our mind and heart to feel empathy for the other person’s situation. “And that’s going to make me a more effective communicator—and ironically, make sure that I am understood.”

Why the Saints Belong in Pastoral Counseling

A few years ago, Flores-Popcak did a deep dive into the writings of the saints about issues that often come up in pastoral counseling. He found a treasure trove of insights that resonate with the best evidence-based practices of 21st century counselors.

“Let’s recognize that mental health isn’t a new thing,” he said. “Humans have always had brains and relationships. So if someone is sincerely trying to love and serve Christ—which are really the same thing—they’re naturally going to have some good advice about how to live and relate well.

He eventually boiled his project down into twenty quotes that he turned into social media posts. Here’s a sampling:

• St. Thomas Aquinas: “…a hurtful thing hurts yet more if we keep it shut up… when a man sees others saddened by his own sorrow, it seems as though others were bearing the burden with him, striving, as it were, to lessen its weight” (Summa Theologica, Quaestio 38).
• St. Peter Damian: “But if I were to tell you of all the graces conferred by tears, the day would be at an end before I had finished… Tears bring forth joy from sadness. When they spring from the eyes… they raise us up to the hope of eternal blessedness.”
• St. Catherine of Siena: “What is it you want to change? Your hair, your face, your body? Why? For God is in love with all those things and He might weep when they are gone” (The Dialogue, 96)
• St. Philip Neri: “…Let us aim for joy, rather than respectability. Let us make fools of ourselves from time to time, and thus see ourselves, for a moment, as the all-wise God sees us.”
• St. Ignatius of Loyola: “It is not the soul alone that should be healthy; if the mind is healthy in a healthy body, all will be healthy and much better prepared to give God greater service.”
• St. Teresa of Avila: “It is a great advantage for us to be able to consult someone who knows us, so that we may learn to know ourselves… As a rule, all our anxieties and troubles come from misunderstanding our own nature.”

The quote that elicited the largest response on social media was the one from St. Peter Damien about the value of tears.

“We had people sharing vulnerably about how their parents had screamed at them or even hit them for crying, telling them to ‘offer it up.’ And then here’s a Doctor of the Church talking about the importance of letting yourself cry—both psychologically and spiritually,” Flores-Popcak said. “For a lot of people, it was eye-opening to realize that maybe their parents were wrong—that the Church actually values tears as something holy and healing.”

The Saints Didn’t Have It Easy

Flores-Popcak is not the only pastoral counselor at CatholicCounselors.com who brings the saints into their counseling sessions. Often, counselors will bring up the lives of the saints to offer their clients encouragement.

“We think of saints as being these perfect people with perfect faith, but they were truly people who had difficulties in their life,” says pastoral counselor Rachael Isaac. “It wasn’t about being perfect or not struggling with things, but the conviction to continue to turn to God and not let struggles define them that made them the saints we know.”

Another pastoral counselor, Grant Freeman, challenges clients to think about where Mary’s deep peace came from. It would be simplistic to think that being “full of grace” meant that she had it easy. But if you think about it, he said, the Joyful Mysteries could really be dubbed the “Nightmare Mysteries.”

“The Annunciation: Unmarried pregnancy that will likely be perceived negatively. The Visitation: 90-mile journey with morning sickness,” he said. “Christmas: Not necessarily a cakewalk; also, slaughter of the innocents. Presentation: Simeon and Anna aren’t necessarily harbingers of joy. Finding in the temple? In the modern era, a CPS incident.”

His point is that Mary’s peace was really grounded in deep trust in the Lord’s providence.

Counselor Andy Proctor said he often points clients to saints who overcame painful family histories. St. Elizabeth Ann Seton and St. Martin de Porres are favorite examples; both of them experienced instability and rejection early in life yet grew into people of deep compassion. Their stories, he says, offer hope to anyone still healing from their past: your history may shape you, but it doesn’t have to define you. Grace can transform even the hardest beginnings into holiness.

St. Maximilian Kolbe: Choosing the Adult Mindset

Of course, the saints also provide a model navigating those difficulties. For Ron LaGro, St. Maximilian Kolbe is the ultimate example of emotional maturity—what therapists call an adult mindset.

Kolbe’s calm courage in Auschwitz showed that he refused to let emotions or circumstances dictate his choices. Even in a starvation bunker, he remained centered and purposeful, leading other prisoners in hymns as they died together.

LaGro contrasts this with what he calls the child mindset—blaming others or situations for one’s actions. “People say, ‘I’d do the right thing, but my spouse…’ or ‘but my situation…’ That’s the misery-making mindset,” he said. “Kolbe shows what it looks like to stay centered, responsible, and free—even in the darkest places.”

The Saints Show Us the Way

From Philip Neri’s playful humility to Mary’s steadfast trust and Kolbe’s self-possession, the saints model the kind of emotional and spiritual maturity that leads to lasting peace. They show us that holiness and wholeness are two sides of the same coin—each born from grace cooperating with human effort.

This All Saints Day, consider which saint speaks to your own struggles right now. What lesson might God be offering you through their story?

And if you’d like help applying that wisdom in your own life, reach out to a Catholic pastoral counselor at CatholicCounselors.com.